Language
I'm gonna feed off John's post about Hazelton and wade into a back burner topic that gets people fired up whenever it comes up....Langauge.
A little while back there was a story about a cheesesteak place in Philly putting up a sign that said patrons should order in English and the story about Hazelton mentioned that part of the law made English the official language of the town.
It seems language is a big deal. Certainly since I was a kid there are far more spanish speaking people around. There are also more people around that speak Chinese, Vietnamese, Haitian French. But it seems to be against the Spanish speaking population that much consternation has been focused.
I hear it from time to time too..."People wanna live in this country, they should learn to speak the damn language".
Generally, I think that's true but let me expand my argument before you attack me.
I've travelled a lot for my work and for pleasure and I don't expect people in foreign countries to speak English to me. When I'm in France I expect to hear and be addressed in French; in Germany, German; in Russia, Russian; in Kenya any number of Swahili dialects (which, by the way, earn you lots of points with the locals if you learn a few basic words).
I get desperately tired of egocentric asshole Americans visiting overseas and EXPECTING the locals to speak English. I've heard, way more than once, "Why don't these people speak English" and on more than one occassion I've turned to the egocentric asshole fellow American and said "Because they are _______ (fill in the country), not American! You are visiting THEIR country remember! Why haven't you learned to speak _____________ (fill in corresponding language)?" Then I usually get a confused look and the assholes walk away. If I really want to piss them off I say that in the language of the country I'm visiting. The locals usually smile, nod and give me free coffee, pastries and, on one occasion, I drank free all night.
So to avoid being one of the egocentric asshole Americans when I travel, I take the time to learn, at least a few words and phrases, in the language of the country I'm visiting. I don't try to become fluent because I don't need to do that and the locals don't expect that of you, but the effort to learn a few words and phrases is recognized and will go a LONG way.
OK so much for travel. What the real issue is about is moving to another country. That's a different story.
I think that if you are going to move to another country, you SHOULD learn the language of that country. When you are dealing with government and businesses you should speak the language of that country. What you speak at home or in your own community of friends is up to you. I think it is incumbent on you as to make the effort to learn the language of the country you will be living in. That does NOT mean you should be discriminated against while you are learning. But you shouldn't sit back and expect everyone else to learn YOUR language because you are too lazy to learn the language of the country in which you are living.
Now I'm sure I'll hear about all the people in Puerto Rico that are citizens of the U.S. but their native language is Spanish so why should they learn a new language when the come to the mainland when Spanish is the indigenous language in Boricua (Puerto Rico)? The answer is that the U.S. mainland is NOT Puerto Rico and most businesses, companies, government offices and people speak english on the mainland. You will be able to make a better life for yourself and operate in society better if you learn english. That's the answer. If they were moving from Puerto Rico to Germany, I expect they might have difficulty getting along without learning German. Why should the U/S/, or for that matter, ANY country be any different.
So there's my answer. Invest the time and effort and learn the language because it will help you build a better life for yourself. If you choose to be lazy, expect that people are going to tell you about it.
Now if we want to have a dual language society in the U.S. we can do that. Canada has. Canada's has 2 official languages, English and French and EVERYTHING is printed in both languages and most things, including menus, are available both ways and both languages are taught in school.
So we could do that here in the U.S. Congress COULD pass a law establishing that English and Spanish are the 2 official languages of the United States and that, as they say, would be that. Problem solved. Businesses would go nutso bonkers. Chambers of Commerce all over the country would howl like banshees. But we'd get over it and deal with it.
So was Hazelton right to pass a language ordinace? Maybe. They certainly have that right since no State or Federal law addresses a language requirement. Maybe the people of Hazelton have decided that if you can't speak English, then maybe Hazelton isn't the place for you.
As for the immigration component of Hazelton's ordinance, it will be up to the Judges to decide that issue. But, if you are in the country illegally and living in Hazelton...who's REALLY at fault. Doesn't the term 'Illegal Immigrant' pretty much tell us who is in the wrong? Businesses should not be hiring illegal immigrants to begin with, there is already federal law on that subject so I don't think Hazelton has a leg to stand on there.
I honestly don't know if there is law on housing with regard to illegal immigrants. I suspect that there isn't. There is anti-discrimination law with regard to housing under the fair housing provisions of the HHS code but that law doesn't address illegal immigrants.
But, in point of fact, people who are in this country illegally do not belong here. The U.S. has one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world (some say too liberal but that debate is for another time). There are plenty of ways to legally enter the U.S.
OK fire away!
Raven
A little while back there was a story about a cheesesteak place in Philly putting up a sign that said patrons should order in English and the story about Hazelton mentioned that part of the law made English the official language of the town.
It seems language is a big deal. Certainly since I was a kid there are far more spanish speaking people around. There are also more people around that speak Chinese, Vietnamese, Haitian French. But it seems to be against the Spanish speaking population that much consternation has been focused.
I hear it from time to time too..."People wanna live in this country, they should learn to speak the damn language".
Generally, I think that's true but let me expand my argument before you attack me.
I've travelled a lot for my work and for pleasure and I don't expect people in foreign countries to speak English to me. When I'm in France I expect to hear and be addressed in French; in Germany, German; in Russia, Russian; in Kenya any number of Swahili dialects (which, by the way, earn you lots of points with the locals if you learn a few basic words).
I get desperately tired of egocentric asshole Americans visiting overseas and EXPECTING the locals to speak English. I've heard, way more than once, "Why don't these people speak English" and on more than one occassion I've turned to the egocentric asshole fellow American and said "Because they are _______ (fill in the country), not American! You are visiting THEIR country remember! Why haven't you learned to speak _____________ (fill in corresponding language)?" Then I usually get a confused look and the assholes walk away. If I really want to piss them off I say that in the language of the country I'm visiting. The locals usually smile, nod and give me free coffee, pastries and, on one occasion, I drank free all night.
So to avoid being one of the egocentric asshole Americans when I travel, I take the time to learn, at least a few words and phrases, in the language of the country I'm visiting. I don't try to become fluent because I don't need to do that and the locals don't expect that of you, but the effort to learn a few words and phrases is recognized and will go a LONG way.
OK so much for travel. What the real issue is about is moving to another country. That's a different story.
I think that if you are going to move to another country, you SHOULD learn the language of that country. When you are dealing with government and businesses you should speak the language of that country. What you speak at home or in your own community of friends is up to you. I think it is incumbent on you as to make the effort to learn the language of the country you will be living in. That does NOT mean you should be discriminated against while you are learning. But you shouldn't sit back and expect everyone else to learn YOUR language because you are too lazy to learn the language of the country in which you are living.
Now I'm sure I'll hear about all the people in Puerto Rico that are citizens of the U.S. but their native language is Spanish so why should they learn a new language when the come to the mainland when Spanish is the indigenous language in Boricua (Puerto Rico)? The answer is that the U.S. mainland is NOT Puerto Rico and most businesses, companies, government offices and people speak english on the mainland. You will be able to make a better life for yourself and operate in society better if you learn english. That's the answer. If they were moving from Puerto Rico to Germany, I expect they might have difficulty getting along without learning German. Why should the U/S/, or for that matter, ANY country be any different.
So there's my answer. Invest the time and effort and learn the language because it will help you build a better life for yourself. If you choose to be lazy, expect that people are going to tell you about it.
Now if we want to have a dual language society in the U.S. we can do that. Canada has. Canada's has 2 official languages, English and French and EVERYTHING is printed in both languages and most things, including menus, are available both ways and both languages are taught in school.
So we could do that here in the U.S. Congress COULD pass a law establishing that English and Spanish are the 2 official languages of the United States and that, as they say, would be that. Problem solved. Businesses would go nutso bonkers. Chambers of Commerce all over the country would howl like banshees. But we'd get over it and deal with it.
So was Hazelton right to pass a language ordinace? Maybe. They certainly have that right since no State or Federal law addresses a language requirement. Maybe the people of Hazelton have decided that if you can't speak English, then maybe Hazelton isn't the place for you.
As for the immigration component of Hazelton's ordinance, it will be up to the Judges to decide that issue. But, if you are in the country illegally and living in Hazelton...who's REALLY at fault. Doesn't the term 'Illegal Immigrant' pretty much tell us who is in the wrong? Businesses should not be hiring illegal immigrants to begin with, there is already federal law on that subject so I don't think Hazelton has a leg to stand on there.
I honestly don't know if there is law on housing with regard to illegal immigrants. I suspect that there isn't. There is anti-discrimination law with regard to housing under the fair housing provisions of the HHS code but that law doesn't address illegal immigrants.
But, in point of fact, people who are in this country illegally do not belong here. The U.S. has one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world (some say too liberal but that debate is for another time). There are plenty of ways to legally enter the U.S.
OK fire away!
Raven
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